When do you know you’ve gone crazy? – When you’re more impressed by a tool than what you can create with it!
I reckon the great majority of people in this industry would unconditionally subscribe to the conception that an Apple Mac makes you more productive. This little white magical box somehow enhances your ability to produce amazing things, right? Oh and let’s not forget all the other Apple stuff. The iPhone, Ipod, iMac, MacBook, Mac mini – they’re all magical creations tht enhance our existence!
I guess it’s all down to the modern-day infatuation with shiny new technology coupled with manipulative marketeers operating you like a puppet! I mean, seriously, do any of you think that Apple, the corporation, cares a smidge about how productive you are or how innovative your creations are? They don’t! They really don’t give a damn!
Don’t get me wrong, I love new technology – I think it’s great. But I’m not going to consign to this crazed kind of addiction that so many people have. No, I don’t need that new MacBook, I’m perfectly happy with my three year old PC running XP! And speaking of Operating Systems, no! I don’t need Vista, OSX or Windows 7 – I can manage quite happily without all that!
Real web designers use Macs!
Oh I see; all this time I was under the delusion that one’s credibility in this industry was platform agnostic but obviously I’m totally wrong. What was I thinking!? Of course, I see it now, the extent to which a developer is good at his/her job can be solely measured by the software and hardware they use! How could I have ever thought otherwise!?
Grow up! This industry isn’t about my hammer being better than yours; it’s about what I create with my hammer, and what you create with yours! Like the old saying goes "A bad workman blames his tools" – actually, I’d take it further: "A bad workman feels so passionately about his tools that he values them more than his actual work!"
I actually find this quite comical:
There is absolutely no reason in the world you should use anything other than Keynote. Period. I don’t care if you’re on a PC — if you’re serious about speaking, buy a MacBook just for presenting. There is an astounding difference (not an exaggeration) between the tools, canvas placement, typographic control, and overall aesthetics in Keynote compared to PowerPoint. Once you become familiar with Keynote, which isn’t an arduous process, the productivity and just plain enjoyment you’ll experience using it over PowerPoint is completely worth any switching costs.
Obviously Cameron Moll feels that to succeed as a speaker you MUST BUY A MACBOOK!
I’m going to stop now, I feel I may explode!
If you suck at something on a PC you will also suck at it on a Mac!
PS, congratulations Apple, you’ve actually made me want to hold on to my PC out of protest!
Lol, I laughed. Although I’ll admit I would love a Mac and plan to use them in the future, my Vista laptop has crashed twice I think in 6 months, and one time because I accidently tried to open a folder I shouldn’t!
Before I got my Mac, I asked around the net about the differences between a Mac and PC when it comes to design. Soon after, I noticed that it was mostly subjective.
Now having and using a Mac for months, I can honestly say that it has made me a better designer. Multi-tasking is a breeze with expose and the fact that the whole desktop isn’t taken up by one application. The desktop behaves like a REAL desktop where the sketch you’re working on doesn’t take up your whole desk. And, OS X is actually inspiring by its design.
On top of that, OS X comes preloaded with iLife, which introduced me to podcasting and video editing.
Yes, you can can create beautiful work on a PC, but Mac’s seem to encourage creativity and exploration.
I don’t think that, but I did it for the OS. I love Leopard, it works. Unlike my experiences with Vista. It’s probably the main reason I bought one, that and the great programs that are exclusive to it. Coda. iMovie. Things. Times and more. And not forgetting Time Machine. It’s a life saver.
I’m currently running OSX on my PC (Google ‘Hackintosh’) basically for this purpose. I did have a perspective similar to yours, however this past week running Mac, it’s definitely changed my perspective.
I upgraded to Vista purely because it looked nicer. I hated XP’s design, and Vista was great – the problems with Vista in the press are massively over-exaggerated.
I actually _enjoy_ using OSX much more than any other OS. Developers on Mac take care to integrate their apps into Mac’s interface. Every app looks like it was built right into the OS.
On Windows, probably 90% of apps look UGLY. There has never been any effort for apps to look uniform in Windows – including Microsoft programs!
Windows 7 does look to be a massive improvement, and advancement in improving Windows’ usability – the new taskbar/dock is fantastic.
While this may seem shallow-minded, using your computer should be a positive experience, without random crashes; and that’s why I’m going to stick with Mac (at-least until Windows 7, which I’ll try out).
I should note I’ve also tried Ubuntu, and a couple other Linux distros throughout the past year, and while they’re great systems, they lack a nice UI to bring me over – not to mention I don’t really want to wrestle in commands several times a week.
Basically, James, I strongly recommend you take the time to install OSX on a spare partition and use it exclusively for a week or two. While your first couple of days will be spent in confusion trying to use the UI, you may quickly realise that you are enjoying it.
Sorry if this comment is a little long-winded, I just wanted to round up my thoughts as I used to share the same attitude toward Mac as you.
I’m running Mac OS X on a MacBook Pro and the reason I use OS X is simply the Mac Communauty. I agree with you when you said that Apple don’t give a damn about how productive we are BUT independant apps developper DO. They make their apps intuitive, beautiful and powerful.
Here’s a sample of the great spirit and attitude of the Mac Communauty : MacHeist
I think your missing the point about the Cameron Moll quote. No where is it talking about how you must get a MacBook because they are “magical creations that enhance our existence”. Moll only is talking about keynote, software that you must have a mac to run.
If Moll truly feels that Keynote is better then Powerpoint then that makes sense to say you need to get a Macbook for presenting.
Besides that I fully agree with what your saying about making the tools more important than what you make with them. Its pretty stupid when people go crazy about Mac vs PC. I use both, they both have strengths and weaknesses.
As Ash said : “Before I got my Mac, I asked around the net about the differences between a Mac and PC when it comes to design. Soon after, I noticed that it was mostly subjective.”
I agree its all subjective, I perfer a Mac personally, so that is the computer I own personally but in my work I have both a mac and pc.
Perhaps so, but it’ll hurt less. Kinda like; If you suck at running in boots, you’ll suck at running in sneakers… only the sneakers will be more comfortable.
I think there are many misconceptions people have about Apple fanboy-ism, probably due mainly to the lack of reasoning on the fanboys part.
I am a firm believer of buying the best of breed for anything you use regularly, for example, people who drive a lot should have more expensive, more comfortable cars, than those who don’t. Most people would enjoy driving a Ferrari on a daily basis than a Fiat Punto – so why bore yourself all the time.
Apple has a greater fanboy culture because it’s products are generally more pleasurable to use than the next leading brand.
The reason why I think web developers and designers should all be using Macs is that the Internet is evolving at a staggering pace, Microsoft isn’t innovative – they won’t chuck half their features out the window to replace them with a smaller set of amazing features that would suit *most* people – they’d rather keep everyone happy – and we all know that just doesn’t work. Apple on the other hand, has a totally different consumer culture – people wouldn’t think twice about upgrading to Leopard.
I’ll leave you with this, don’t think of reasons to not to move to a Mac based on “what is wrong with Windows?”, look at why you should be moving based on “what is actually right about Windows?”.
Apple certainly has a loyal fanbase. I had a negative thing about them for a while when they recaptured their sales drive with the iPod, iMac and iGoodnessKnowsWhatElse. It’s a curious personality trait that I seem to rebel against successful or popular brands, TV programmes, or groups that are ‘of the moment’.
Two years ago, I decided to buy a MacBook after years of owning PCs. I still use PCs for the majority of the time – I’m using one now to write this comment, and I use one for the majority of the day when I’m writing .NET apps/websites. But you know what – I’m glad that I did buy a Mac – sure, Apple’s advertising and branding is a little annoying at times, and believe me the ‘it just works’ saying really winds me up, but the MacBook is really nice to use.
I like things about my PCs, and I like things about my MacBook – I get a great deal of pleasure from using both.
A lot of web designers and ‘creatives’ (a label I really dislike) use Macs because historically speaking, Macs dominated the design industry for years, probably because of their software support and quality (yes, really.)
I reckon Apple does care about productivity whilst using their products – productivity and general usability are positive factors that drive consumers to product adoption and loyalty.
Ultimately, you can stick with a PC, but perhaps trying a Mac for a bit will educate you as to why so many people are so fanatical about the product. Then again, lots of people like Elvis and I can’t stand him.
On the other hand:
If you’re good at using UNIX/UNIX-like operating systems (e.g. Linux, *BSD, Solaris, etc), you’ll probably do well on a Mac.
I think developers who don’t know how to use UNIX/UNIX-like OS’s are at a disadvantage. Granted, you can get that experience even if your desktop OS is Windows.
Funny, but purely opinion. Fact is *nix systems will always be superior on the backend as well as the frontend.
Sounds like someone is a little bitter. As a web developer and a mac user (previously a windows user for more than 15 years), I can guarantee you that the stability and functionality of a mac is superior to that of XP and/or Vista (Windows 2000 Pro is the best operating system to ever come out of Redmond).
If you want to use your fancy text editor in windows, then fine — to each his own. The mac is much more convenient for me in that regard because I use nothing but VIM for my text editing (arguably the best text editor in the world — emacs people, don’t get mad!) and the OS is extremely stable. I run windows in a virtual machine for the sole purpose of testing my code in IE (which is a pain in the ass by the way).
Anyway, if you haven’t done any serious development on the Mac, I’d suggest trying it before you knock it.
look, these battles between pc and mac are ridiculous and you show you’re own immaturity by writing about it.
that said, there is a really really big reason why designers (specifically graphic designers which is what web designers should be) use macs — FONTS!!!
any designer worth his weight in salt knows that typography is the name of the game. any pc or mac user worth their weight in salt knows that windows has little to no type management while mac has always had something for type management that is just … well… phenomenal.
from ATM in the pre OS X days, to font book which comes standard with OS X, to suitcase; windows has no real equivalent to the type management that comes standard with macs.
Thanks for the comments everyone!
Firstly, I have used Apple Macs before, sure, not for an extended period of time but I definitely got a reasonable taster. From that I can assure you that I am not against the actual OS or Apple hardware. Aesthetically (and possibly technologically) the Mac OS is far superior to Windows. I understand that and I am not knocking Apple in any way.
I am knocking a certain elitist attitude which I’ve spotted frequently within the ‘creative’ and ‘development’ industries. While my post may seem elitist I’m actually more apathetic when it comes to this particular topic.
Simply put, I am against the “Macs are better than PCs” and the “real web designers use Macs” kind of attitudes.
Me, knocking the Mac without having used it for an extended period of time is exactly the same as what many Mac fanboys do – saying PCs are crap without having used them (properly)!
I will probably tryout a Mac sometime in the future (for more than 10 minutes) – I may even purchase one (if I have enough money!), but for now a PC is all I need and I could really do without so many people telling me that I’d be “more productive” on a Mac. I’ve used a PC for most of my life and have become quite good at using it – I don’t really see how I could be any more productive… A Mac isn’t going to make me type faster, is it!?
One last thing, the Cameron Moll quote was very relevant and I think it really highlighted what I was trying to put across in this post (i.e. the tool you use doesn’t matter!). In my opinion the quality of a presentation is not even slightly dependent on the tools used. – It’s all to do with how animated, enthusiastic and informative the talk is – I don’t give a damn about the presentation slides. Heck, for me, the ideal presentation is one guy talking about something he knows tonnes about with only a few slides in the background; each dedicated ONLY to a graphical aid – no bullet points!
Actually, to succeed as an iPhone developer, you must own a(n Intel) Mac. So there is one thing that is clearly easier to do with Macs.*
*Note, this is intended to be humorous, I agree with the article.
“Me, knocking the Mac without having used it for an extended period of time is exactly the same as what many Mac fanboys do – saying PCs are crap without having used them (properly)”
So, you’re a PC fanboy then?
I don’t get it either. I got a macbook a year or so ago, and I found myself using most of the same programs as I do on my PC. I switch back and forth between OS X and Windows a few times a day and I can hardly say that OS X is all that much better, it just handles things a bit differently. I’m a computer nerd and I do like some of the things about the mac under the hood better, but that never actually effects my workflow.
I know this is a tangent specific to a particular piece of mac software rather than the overall experience, but after sitting through 4+ hours of them a week for a few months I can safely say the person you quoted about Keynote doesn’t get what makes for a good slideshow. If you need all that from slideshow software, chances are very good that the sideshow you’ve created would be less painful for the viewer as plain text (and images) on a plain background.
Your article would be a lot more interesting if it was based on experience. You should revisit it after switching to a Mac and using it exclusively for 1 year.
As a former MS employee and Windows user for 17 years and a serious PowerPoint user, I can attest to the quote you found comical. My experience matches that of the person you quote.
However, you are right in that if you suck at something, the tool by itself can only help you suck less, it can’t make you a pro. But not all hammers are the same. Try to cut asphalt without a jackhammer.
@Ryan Townsend February 17th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
Wow, mr Ryan, I go to this part, and almost fell off my chair:
Microsoft vs apple in terms of features?
Did you EVER hear what microsoft does? It writes software. Ever heard of .NET framework? How about the little editor called visual studio?
Innovative? Internet moving … what does it have to do with MAC????
lol
Do you see “mac” developing next generation MVC ASP.net framework to outpace RubyOnRails and Django when the whole microsoft army takes a hold of it?
What has mac created? Boxes and little players? Photo album and music organizer? OMG!!! NOOO!!! That will create a new BIG BANG in the universe!
In fact it’s almost like Dell now, using Intel for it processors, outsourcing all of it’s manufacturing to someone else.
WAKE UP. Mac is just an image – no substance.
I don’t really like microsoft either, but you have to give it to them.
I guess mac is really only good at one thing – making people argue, whether it’s in favour or against it.
Your point merrily skips past the good reasons that Moll listed as to _why_ Keynote is a superior tool. Yeah, if you suck at presentation design, you’ll probably suck equally on both platforms.
However, if you know what you’re doing, then a tool that limits your control and can’t anti-alias type worth crap (PowerPoint) is going to prevent you from producing (or at least make it more time-consuming and frustrating to produce) visuals with as much quality as a different tool that has better “tools, canvas placement, typographic control, and overall aesthetics”.
The tool you use totally matters.
Also, do we need to point out that Cameron Moll != Apple, and how silly it is to reject a product based on a knee-jerk reaction to your perception of people who like said product (and provide reasons for their preference)?
@To each his own
Good hardware + good/certified drivers + good software = stable system.
Deviate from that equation and yes, you’ll have system instability.
IE isn’t a tough platform to test in. Yes it has some bugs (what browser doesn’t?), and yes it lacks the standards support of the other browsers. Any developer worth their salt knows each browser’s strengths and weaknesses, and develops around them.
Windows would be fine if it had a decent command line. It turns out BASH makes me much more productive, as does access to many shell and scripting languages.
If you are just clicking around on windows you make a fine argument. If you are a developer who cares about the command line and the ability to automate tasks, etc. Well, some sort of *nix is a must. Apple happens to be a decent Unix variant with a UI that is as good as Windows.
Cygwin can almost make Windows usable, but it isn’t as good as the real thing.
Hold on to your PC as protest. That will show them! While you’re at it, hold on to you Big Mac out of protest for all the people who enjoy being skinny! Fight the good fight man!
@duriyko
“Did you EVER hear what microsoft does? It writes software. Ever heard of .NET framework? How about the little editor called visual studio?”
Yes, as a matter of fact I have! I write Windows apps on my MB Pro using Boot Camp! I would like to do the opposite for Mac apps as well, but ah I can’t! OH! And guess what, XCode comes on EVERY Mac OS X disc for FREE! OMG! I can have an IDE for writing apps with the disc that came with my computer! Go Apple! And oh yeah, Visual Studio gets better, it isn’t great. I was running Visual Studio 2007 and guess what? It didn’t work with Vista! Microsoft writes a bunch of SHITTY software. Everything good from them, SQL Server and Excel, those were purchased from others. Why don’t you try being a developer before making bullshit statements. It will help.
“Do you see “mac” developing next generation MVC ASP.net framework to outpace RubyOnRails and Django when the whole microsoft army takes a hold of it?”
Do I see Apple having to copy java and call it .net? To replace the curse called VB? No, sorry I don’t. I see them having a browser that follows standards and encouraging people to use those standards by posting tutorials on their website.
I’ve spent my time in the Windows world. You are an idiot.
The fact is I used to be a big PC user and my brother talked me into getting a mac a little over a year ago and I will never go back to PC. Sure, you have to use a PC for some application but as far as everyday use i prefer my mac why? in the year I have had it it has only crashed once and do you know why; I was trying to load window with bootcamp.
True that the mac doesnt make you more productive but it doesnt fuck with getting in your way a PC does.
Anthony Pittarelli
My two small children have access to either my wife’s laptop (running XP) or my laptop (OS X 10.5). They prefer the Mac, I obviously prefer the Mac (and have used one since the Mac was created except for a brief, painful daliance with XP around 2000) and my wife… well she prefers XP. Why? Because it is in her comfort zone. Having to change even the smallest thing in her computer usage throws her completely off (thus she hasn’t changed, adjusted or moved a single thing on her laptop in 4 years).
Out of the mouths of babes…
@Rickdiculous
Says a lot.
Also, if you can’t setup you dev environment, be it vista (really?) or nt, that you should be fired. As to copying and not following standards that the only way to progress, and move technology forward. If we all followed standards we would still be using html 0.01. Business is what drives the need for innovation, and you need to break things to improve them (ever went to the gym?)
Also the “copied” technology (java) has fallen so far behind (see linq, generics) that it is not even possible to compare them anymore.
PS: In case the enlightened one doesn’t know – Visual studio comes for free in express edition.
I am a web developer, previously working many different ide’s for windows, most of them sucked, then i was introduced to coda, and coda is amazing, what is amazing about it? to be honest.. i dont know, everything just ‘fits’ into place.
Now, I am disappointed that you choose to talk about mac, both hardware and software, without spending time working with the os. This can be compared to bashing food or any other object that you never had a chance to try.
I was skeptical about the mac too, i thought that its bad, and meant for people that don’t know how to use computers, but after using the os for a long time (2 years), i realized that i cant go back to windows.
Protesting something in the vast minority makes you look insecure. It’s like protesting anarchy in the U.S.
Great stuff!
I have been a PC guy for years being convinced that Windows was the only thing right for me. Last year I decided to get a Mac and see what it was.
I am only interested in how I can get the job done. I use Visual Studio for my development, but am running it in Parallels on a TinyXP installation. If I need anything on Linux, I run another VM with Ubuntu on it.
I believe that in the future we will care less who the manufacturer of the hardware and / or the OS, just as long as we have the tools we need to do the job. Ofcourse, we will care about hardware – som care about the price other care about how the hardware looks. As for OS, we have the ability to virtualize everything these days, and with the hypervisors out there we can get the virtualization speedier as well.
The customer support should be a model for all companies. I was so sick of going around in circles with clueless people. It’s so refreshing to get someone who is willing and able to help. I brought an ancient mac laptop a friend gave me to the apple store and was so blown away with the help….no talk of obsolete, old, ect….that I am now the proud owner of a wonderful, trouble free macbook!!!!!
Pc people are to Macs what Bay Area people are to LA.
Blind haters. Haters fueled by hate more than reason.
Computers are computers man. No one on the Mac side is telling you you need to switch. At least none of the mac users I know. Linux, PC, Mac, whatever gets it done for you son. Take your sermon to church.
Speak the truth, and watch the mac sycophants moan and wail…
Wow… I have been designing and developing for almost your entire life.
A 3 year old machine. I’m sure it runs good, but I’m also sure with a newer computer mac or pc you would be getting jobs done quicker. Multitasking for example. I don’t know how many times I have had photoshop open and then needed to optimize images in fireworks, then in dreamweaver put the code together, while chatting on my ichat and checking my mail…. and going online with a non buggy browser. Can’t forget while listening to itunes. and NEVER having to run spyware and virus protection.
People don’t just say things are good for the hell of it. There is a reason why OS X is built on UNIX and there is a reason why people are switching more and more.
iLife alone is great. Comes with everything you need to make movies, organize/edit photos, make a website (a crappy one but still for someone who doesnt know) plus make your own music and podcasts. It comes with your computer too.
Dont forget about the wonderful customer support apple has. Plus if you really wanted to be better at something like music production or video production then Apple also provides 1to1 classes. 99 bucks a year comes out to about 2 dollars a class with a trained professional.
Macs seem like more money then the norm, but really its an investment. You do get a lot of stuff with the money you drop down for a new mac. Pre-OS X I was all about pcs… windows 95 and os9 crashed about the same and hung up about the same. but ever since osx came out there is no contest.
For me it’s little things like setting corner hotspots to Expose and show desktop, or Quicksilver.
LOL, love the post man. You are dead on. I think the fundamental and most disturbing difference between fanboys (apple or any other type) and the general populace is the amount of emotional capital they invest in a tool. In my mind the Apple fanboys are the ultimate low point in modern consumer culture. The mere fact that these people would line up for the “privilege” of lining Steve Jobs’s already bulging pockets is both hilarious and depressing.
There is a place for mac, but its certainly not among the general population. I don’t see the point in this competition between mac and pc, when for the vast majority of mindless users a pc will more than suffice – and offers more than the ability to create a photo album!
In my opinion somethings not pc compatible, its linux compatible. And linux is a hell of a lot cheaper… in fact, due to the lack of abundance of mac sellers – you fork out a LOT of money for something which probably wont be as powerful as a pc of equivalent price.
My argument is a bit one sided I know, obviously there is a hell of a lot wrong with MS. But for mac to be seriously accepted amongst specialist users on a large scale – they really need to sort out their networking… its terrible!
“Me, knocking the Mac without having used it for an extended period of time is exactly the same as what many Mac fanboys do – saying PCs are crap without having used them (properly)!”
I think you will find that the majority of “mac fanboys” users have a large amount of windows experience prior to getting a mac, whereas the majority of PC fanboys have played with OSX in their local apple store for 10 minutes (such as yourself).
I work as a web developer, and believe strongly in using the best tools for the job.
I use a mac nearly exclusively for development (except for java 1.6 – damn you apple). I use windows to debug internet explorer stupidities, and play the occasional game. I use various flavours of *NIX for production.
I have made these choices from over 2 decades of experience. I continually review my options, as being more productive means more money in my pocket. If you think that your 10 minutes of playing with OSX can give you any idea of its true value then you are deluding yourself.
Wow… this is, I believe, what’s known as a straw man, and to me, you’ve hurt your own argument by using it. You are right that if you’re bad at something, no tool is going to change that, but, you said:
Is that really what you think he said? Really? Were you reading the quote that you have in your post? To me, it sounded like he said that Keynote is so much better than PowerPoint, that if you are going to be a speaker, it’s well worth the hassle of changing platforms to be able to take advantage of Keynote’s advantages.
That’s not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination. He never said you can’t succeed as a speaker using PowerPoint. He said Keynote has some specific advantages that make it a better choice for professional speakers.
That is, of course, an opinion, but it’s a valid one, supported with specific examples that show what this guy values. If you don’t agree with it, how about showing where he’s wrong, rather than misrepresenting what he said? That is, of course, if you’ve spent enough time with both PowerPoint and Keynote to even have an opinion.
Oh yeah, I installed Mac OSX and everything was gravy! My back pain went away, my girlfriend stopped being a raving lunatic, and my penis grew 3 inches.
Then I tried to install some video games. Oops, back to PC it is!
@duriyko
“Also, if you can’t setup you dev environment, be it vista (really?) or nt, that you should be fired.”
Sorry, I don’t get fired. I’m a good developer. I make what’s needed with the tools I have, but I have every right to complain about those tools.
“If we all followed standards we would still be using html 0.01. Business is what drives the need for innovation, and you need to break things to improve them (ever went to the gym?)”
Yes, just like every other industry does right? Like the broadcasting industry, the auto industry, etc. etc.
“Also the “copied” technology (java) has fallen so far behind (see linq, generics) that it is not even possible to compare them anymore.”
Java was an example to make a quick point. Silverlight, .net, ASP, WMV, these are all things Microsoft thought they could do better at.
“PS: In case the enlightened one doesn’t know – Visual studio comes for free in express edition.”
It doesn’t come shipped with the machine, and it’s a crippled version. I’ve used it.
It sounds to me like you haven’t experience anything better so you choose to defend the only thing you know. I’ve developed on and for both platforms. I know what I’m talking about. You sound like the old VB guys still writing Access programs because “there isn’t any need to learn C# and .net.”
“I write Windows apps on my MB Pro using Boot Camp! I would like to do the opposite for Mac apps as well, but ah I can’t!”
That’s so obviously a failing in Windows and nothing to do with the fact that Apple’s so obsessed with crippling their software so they can turn obscene profits on their overdesigned, overhyped, overpriced hardware.
@Rickdiculous
“I can have an IDE for writing apps with the disc that came with my computer!”
Wrong, you have to sign up for their developer club before you can *download* xcode.
“I was running Visual Studio 2007…”
There is no such thing as Visual Studio 2007. And 2008 works with Vista out of the box, 2005 requires a service pack. Anyone who is savvy enough to be a developer could figure this out, considering it explicitly tells you what to do when you try to install it on Vista.
“Everything good from them, SQL Server and Excel, those were purchased from others.”
How ironic. OS X is a cluster-f*** of out-dated BSD, NextStep, and various other OSS utilities that Apple didn’t write. They threw a pretty interface on top of it and all the sudden it’s like every other Apple product, pretty on the outside, crap on the inside.
Anyway, you should check your facts before calling someone a moron.
So true. I do have a mac on my desk and a macbook for work (black, doesn’t get dirty as easily) for one basic reason: I’m a unix admin. OSX is basically unix, so it integrates better with the systems I use on a daily basis (mainly Solaris) than does Windows. It integrates with customers’ windows environments well enough to do printing and mail, which is all I usually need from them anyway. Why not Linux you may ask? Simply because with the hardware and OS coming from the same vendor, integration is their nightmare. One throat to choke, so to say. Considering how much time I used to spend under Linux selecting supported hardware, getting every last bit of hardware working correctly, and keeping it working after upgrades, the premium on purchase is earned back in less than a day, and the whole purchase is tax deductible anyway. Does it make me a better sysadmin? No. Does it make me slightly more productive and saves me from wasting lots of time getting my tools working? Yes. And a tool is what it is, just as I like to buy quality physical tools to work on equipment rather than getting them from the walmart bargain bin. When I find a better tool, bye bye macs.
I would have to say that I think Apple spend a lot of time enhancing my productivity.
And pleasure from using OS X.
I’ve been using, and working with, Windows. Professionally since v3.1. About 6 months ago, I had the opportunity to get me an iMac relatively cheap.
It took 5 days for me to adjust to OS X. I haven’t looked back since.
I have to use Windows every day, cause I’m a sysadmin and a Windows infrastructure guy. It’s not that it’s that bad. It’s just… it isn’t really good either.
I feel numb when using Windows. On the other hand, OS X is a joy to use. I know it’s subjective, but there’s definately something to the way Apple designs OS X. It just runs better. It looks better. In day to day use.
When I get home, I want to be a dumb user. No sysadmin’ing for me. OS X just runs like a dream, and the applications built on top of it, are usually of very high quality, built for a users mindset. I love it.
And I’m not degrading to Windows at home again (let’s see when Windows 7 is out, but I’ve gotten very fond of OS X). I get so much more from using OS X. Can I pinpoint why ? No. It’s just… great
Also, I really don’t think you’re right about the tools. The right tools count for a lot. Using the right tools, will allow you to do things better, faster, more enjoyable. And I believe that will reflect in whatever final product you’re creating. Be that a presentation, an application, a video – if you enjoyed the process, I personally believe that the end product will show just that.
And you can’t enjoy a process with stinky tools, simple as that.
This is not so much to do a Windows/Mac is better than Windows/Mac. Just a personal tale of a guy who works with Windows every day, from desktop to backend. But enjoy it the most when I can use my Mac at home.
Windows, to me, is like the wife you’ve been married to for 15 years. Not a bad marriage. Not good either. Sex is twice a week, and it’s allright, satisfies your basic needs. The garden gets done, the dishes are washed, the clothes is clean, and you wear the same white shirt and tie as every other John Doe on your street.
Hell, you’d do the girl at the McDonalds counter, as long as you felt something new was happening. But nothing much ever changes.
A Mac and OS X is the beautiful woman you meet among a million other people on the street. You not only end up marrying her, but you WANT to be faithful. It’s a great marriage, and every day you’re thankful you married her. Sex is stellar and on an everyday basis. You make each other better. Your garden looks however you want it to, someone or something’s doing the dishes – doesn’t matter, it gets done. And every day, you pick a new set of clothes depending on how you feel. Life is easy, and you get to be you.
Sure, she might not be the worlds best at everything. But she’s the best for you. Every now and again, she makes a radical and lifechanging decision. You smile and go “Of course honey – it makes sense, and I’m right there with you. Thank you.”
Honestly, that metaphor amply describes the change I’ve experienced. I have no relationship with Windows, on the level I do with OS X.
So sure, I may suck. But I suck and enjoy it.
And therein lies the difference.
@Brian
“Wrong, you have to sign up for their developer club before you can *download* xcode. ”
Not true. It’s right there on the OS X installation disc. I should know, I installed it from that same installation disc (10.5.4 I believe).
But you can also download Xcode from ADC. The basic membership, Online Member, is free – and allows you to download both Xcode and the iPhone SDK.
@Timothy
“Oh yeah, I installed Mac OSX and everything was gravy! My back pain went away, my girlfriend stopped being a raving lunatic, and my penis grew 3 inches.
Then I tried to install some video games. Oops, back to PC it is!”
Well there’s your fault right there. If your girlfriend stopped being a raving lunatic and your penis grew 3 inches, you shouldn’t really spend your time playing video games, should you now ? ;D
Anyway, you’re painfully right. OS X is an excellent gaming platform by the way. There’s just nowhere near enough great (or new, for that matter) releases for it.
I agree with your point that some people feel they are more productive just BECAUSE it’s a mac. Although… I know being a Web Developer dealing with linux servers OS X just makes more sense. I can use the same commands, tools and they just compliment each other.
@Brian
“Wrong, you have to sign up for their developer club before you can *download* xcode.”
It came on my disc. You do have to sign up, though.
“There is no such thing as Visual Studio 2007.”
Ok, let me put it this way: I was running the latest version of Visual Studio and it didn’t work with Vista. Keep in mind this was about 2 years ago. We subscribed to MSDN, and we got all the latest software. When I installed it, it didn’t work. I’m not making this up to sound cool.
“2005 requires a service pack.” There was no service pack available when I install Vista. Again, I’m not making this shit up. You can nitpick about me typing 2007 instead of 2005 all you want though. Either way, there was no service pack available for the latest version of Visual Studio when the latest version of their OS came out. That is lame.
I left the Windows app world about 2 years ago and only write those programs for contract work now, on my optiplex gx270.
“Anyway, you should check your facts before calling someone a moron.”
If you go off on a rant about hating Macs without seriously using them, you are a moron. I can rant as much as I want because I did my time in the Windows world. If you didn’t do your time in the Mac world, STFU.
As someone who repairs Windows-based computer systems daily, I have a tendency to respond to people who want to know how to prevent their computer from getting virus infections with “Get a Mac”. But the reality is there are some sacrifices that need to be made to do that, most of them financial. In my neck of the woods, most families can barely afford the cheapest PC system available, and an Apple computer is simply out of the question for them.
However, I admire Apple for not following the rest of the market, and for not sacrificing quality in an attempt to gain a larger market. Their products are not always perfect, and in reality nobody makes a perfect computer 100% of the time, but they do have an excellent reputation for a reason. And the truth is, I currently remove virus infections from 9 out of 10 computers I work on – which would not be true if they were Mac systems.
I also have found that lately the number of customers who probably should not a computer at all has increased, again thanks to the price drop of PC systems. When they cost over $1,000 things were much different.
Personally I use LINUX for the majority of my computing, which has all the same UNIX-based benefits that OSX enjoys. I use Windows XP for my gaming habit because quite frankly it is superior at running both old and new PC games, but I am reluctant to use it on the internet because I am aware of exactly how easy it is to pick up an infection these days, even with effective anti-virus software and Mozilla Firefox / Opera as your web browser. If it was in my budget I would probably own an Apple computer for my artistic endeavors, even though I am certain that Steve Jobs is no more honest than Bill Gates and Intel is clearly an evil corporation. If I were to purchase another laptop computer it will definitely be a MacBook – overall their design is truly superior to other laptop computers on the market, if only because of their AC adapter connection, which is sheer brilliance.
In general, however, I believe the author is correct in the statement that most computer owners perceive their technology as a “magic devices”, if only because these same technology owners very quickly get confused when I cannot “magically” repair their virus infection or other issues instantly, and free of charge.
hehe, you are silly.
Keynote is great.
you are an idiot. creativity is something that thrives when unincumbered. PC makes a programmer/designer spend all his/her time f’ing with the poorly designed OS instead of creating. It’s a left brain/right brain thing and you are too stupid to realize that the shortest distance between two points (a blank page – creation) is a straight line. Anyone who has worked with a PC knows that you have to dedicated your life (become a complete dork) in order to get anything done on it. And once you do that, you will loose your ability to communicate with NORMAL people because you are so in tune with the details of how to overcome PC’s non-stop error messages.
Get back to work I think you are missing a pixel why can’t you make an all flash website run on 20 browsers and load in .0001 seconds over dialup f***f***f***!!!
Yes, there is an elitist attitude with Mac. That doesn’t make them any less great.
But there is also this attitude that you ascribe to, which is really part idiocy. One of your opening lines:
I mean, seriously, do any of you think that Apple, the corporation
Who cares, what does this have to do with the fact that they have made Macs are more productive platform to work on. Macs are about a million times more secure (because they are built on BSD, a secure version of Unix), so i don’t have to deal with viruses, or virus checkers. I don’t need to reinstall the OS every month or so (as I had to with XP, because it would slow down).
Microsoft is ok, don’t get me wrong, I have been programming with them since Dos 3.3, but they can’t write a decent OS until they get rid of this legacy Windows crap, and build a truly Multi-user OS. Then add compatability on top of that, let security become first.
James, it’s unfortunate you’ve equated my argument for Keynote to be an argument about Mac vs. PC. If Keynote ever becomes available for Windows, by all means stay on a PC if that floats your boat. Until then, your only option is a Mac.
YEAH! nice post. I think exactly like you! Its not the hammer, its what you do with it. Gratz!
I want to pose a simple question:
Is there anyone here that previously switched to a mac that DIDN’T find their computing time spent more productively? Anyone at all?
@Rickdiculous,
“Yes, as a matter of fact I have! I write Windows apps on my MB Pro using Boot Camp! I would like to do the opposite for Mac apps as well, but ah I can’t! OH! And guess what, XCode comes on EVERY Mac OS X disc for FREE! OMG! I can have an IDE for writing apps with the disc that came with my computer! Go Apple! And oh yeah, Visual Studio gets better, it isn’t great. I was running Visual Studio 2007 and guess what? It didn’t work with Vista! Microsoft writes a bunch of SHITTY software. Everything good from them, SQL Server and Excel, those were purchased from others. Why don’t you try being a developer before making bullshit statements. It will help.”
Microsoft provides Visual Studio Express editions for free. They may not be on the OS CD, but in the day and age of broadband, it really doesn’t matter. Also, there’s no such application as Visual Studio 2007. VS2008 runs just fine on Vista; if you couldn’t get it to work, well then that just speaks volumes of your computer skills.
If tools aren’t important, why not make your presentation in MS Paint?
Or why use a computer at all? Just make your slides by hand with pieces of cardboard.
I hate the argument that tools don’t matter. They ABSOLUTELY do. Will you be more productive changing a tire with a hydraulic lift and pneumatic tools or a wrench and a cheap Sears jack? Give me a break.
I agree with any one of your words pal, I love techno stuff but always try to remember the people who make it to do something. Creativity lays in persons not in machines,at least for a while.
hmmmm maybe because im not a good web designer after all. coz in my first job as web designer I use Linux CentOS in my silly company.
Agree with most of that James. What particularly pisses me off is the attitude that the owners have. I’m delighted THEY can afford it but their attitude verges on patronising. I would love a mac, purely so I can try out another OS and I am sure most of the features are better than XP.
But I still have XP. A MBP or iMac will cost double what a very good laptop/pc will cost – it is a ripoff. No question about it.
So I invested in building my own pc, it is a beast, and bought a Samsung 24 inch monitor for £300. A 24 Apple monitor costs £600+ – who can say ripoff?
I don’t like Vista but find XP solid. To spice it up a bit though, I purchased Stardock ObjectDock which is very funky and I love it. So my pc looks like a mac now.
Who’d've thought that a dig against Apple would generate so many comments
I agree with James, there are way too many designers that think their way is THE way. This is not only true with what OS you use but the text editor, or web browser.
Just use what you like best and don’t to try to force it on everyone else!
I worked at an ad agency that subscribed to this attitude and it drove me nuts. Everyone had the apple logo on their car, and stickers of it on their messenger bags. It’s ridiculous. Personally I’ve always been a PC user, if you’re a Mac user good for you, but I rarely hear PC users so fervently belittle Mac users, whereas I do see the flip side of that all the time. Maybe this was because I worked at an office with Mac fanboys everywhere, I’m not sure.
@Ben – Ben said, “I think your missing the point about the Cameron Moll quote. No where is it talking about how you must get a MacBook because they are “magical creations that enhance our existence”. Moll only is talking about keynote, software that you must have a mac to run.”
I think James was referring to this quote, “I don’t care if you’re on a PC — if you’re serious about speaking, buy a MacBook just for presenting.” This pretty obviously implies that you are only serious if you own a MacBook and use Keynote, and people who speak professionally but don’t use this software are just doing it wrong. Put simply, he’s demanding everyone drop upwards of $2,000 because no other software can compare, and is somehow worth this bloated price.
@Dan Harper – Dan said, “I upgraded to Vista purely because it looked nicer.”
Your four or five other paragraphs were belied by the this single sentence, which clearly states that you are the ‘I bought it because it was shiny’ type of person James is talking about in this article.
@Gibs – Gibs said, “look, these battles between pc and mac are ridiculous and you show you’re own immaturity by writing about it.”
You wrote this sentence which I disagree with, but isn’t a bad comment. However, you then went on to pick a fight about how real designers use Macs, which, in short, makes you look stupid. You also wrote “any designer worth his weight in salt knows that typography is the name of the game.” I’m always amused by people who are positive that an entire skillset or industry can be boiled down to some minute element that they have mastered. By that same merit, are designs without text useless?
@Ryan Townsend – Ryan said, “I think there are many misconceptions people have about Apple fanboy-ism, probably due mainly to the lack of reasoning on the fanboys part.
I am a firm believer of buying the best of breed for anything you use regularly.”
I don’t necessarily disagree with your ‘buy the best’ mentality, but your point is that Apple is ‘obviously the best.’ Which is the exact type of attitude James is commenting on, ie. Apple fanboy-ism.
–
In my experience (always owned a PC, but around 3 years of working at a design agency with only Macs, from old Macs to brand new Macs and I worked on most of the machines) the stability is almost exactly the same. But that’s just my personal experience.
Good post James.
Ah, this argument never tires. I bought a MacBook primarily because I simply didn’t want a Vista machine, and found the hackintosh a bit too rough around the edges (although I will admit that it was also partly down to style). But each to their own – if XP does everything you need, then stick with it.
Anyway, Cameron may have been evangelising a touch, but his point is still valid. He’s not saying that you can’t be a good presenter if you use Powerpoint; he’s just saying that Keynote is the better program, and will make your job easier in the long run, especially if you use if often. And he definitely didn’t say that Keynote presentations are always better than Powerpoint ones. Normally your arguments seem quite sound but I guess you maybe just had an off day and felt like a rant…
When you spend most of your waking life behind a computer, you want to be looking at something pretty. Windows is not ergonomic, and not friendly to the eye. That’s why I stand by apple. Sure Windows machines are cheaper and you can do the same tasks, but if I spend all day looking at a screen, I would like to enjoy my workflow.
Oh James, I do feel sorry for you. Many of those replying appear to be Mac Fanboy variants.
I guess your post was always going to stir criticism, as well as many responses with people: ‘sitting on the fence, but…’
I have never understood why Macs have been considered better. Many years ago Windows 2000 and even XP were far superior to OSs like OS9 (and even 7 and 8 which were about the 2000 era) but still the Mac world continued to blossom. Instabilities in the OS were due to the huge amount of support Windows had for so many different manufacturers’ drivers (mostly) while Apple locked down their software and hardware and prevented many people developing for the system: safe.
The result was a HUGE move to Windows for development (thank you .NET!) and with newer Microsoft innovations (yes, Microsoft IS innovative!) more and more developers are even being pulled away from Unix (go away C++ – hurry up and die already!) systems to
developcreate.Aside from the hardware (which is still locked pretty tight, but allows for Windows distributions) Macs are still very locked down. You need specific tools, on a Mac to actually develop new tools. Bah! Microsoft is so generous with their tools and frameworks that developers can build tools like Moonlight (think Silverlight but on Unix) that allow for such a wide range of exciting new toys.
Apple fanboys need to step up and TRY a PC, instead of boasting that their machine is so good that YOU need to try IT. All Apple really excels at is a great PR and marketing campaign.
Oh, and I HAVE used a Mac for more than 10 minutes at a time, and will ALWAYS come back to Windows
I can see a lot of flurry in the comments, but I will give in to the post.
Yes, it doesnt matter what tool you use if you suck at doing something. The elitist attitude is nauseating at times. But a mac does have its merits, it does crash less and is more stable (of course if people knew how to operate windows well, it wouldn’t hang or crash so frequently either; but that’s the point. 90+% of the users don’t know that and they can survive well on a mac not knowing than on windows).
Everyone develops a comfort zone in the platform they use.
But you know when it gets annoying? When they push the platform unconditionally on to others as an obvious choice (“or else you’re a retard”). THAT’s why I like this post. I still like the mac though.
Hi James,
I totally understand your point! I just couldn`t get the right words for it. You sum it op perfectly. Its exactly how i feel about the whole mac vs PC affaire.
Besides that, i did buy a mac for personal reasons. Somehow, dont ask me why,… working on a mac seems a bit more natural. Things are found easy, working on applications like Photoshop and the likes seems to be more fluid and so on.
However, now that i have a mac, worked on it, i slowly start going back to my old pc. I guess im a bit rusty in a manner i cant explain. Somehow i got used to the pc that the mac seems like the odd duck here.
Consider this – PC’s (the IBM PC, that is, for which the term was coined) and the clones that followed were driven (as in sold) due to a great operating system developed by nerd/geek/uber-businessman Bill Gates. Much of the focus was on software that worked (sort of) and was used by scientists and other nerd/geeky types (to which I claim allegiance) who thought it would be cool to have your own computer to, um – compute stuff. It worked and evlolved (ibid) but looked(s) pretty awful. These are the guys that almost 30 years later still have websites (mind you) that look like some thing BEFORE the desktop publishing (debacle) and regularly qualify for “Websites That Suck – Site of the Day”.
Along come a couple of other (a bit less nerdy but very geeky) types that come up with a different approach. Along with it comes something called “The Humane Interface”. There’s even a book by that title by the person that developed said philosophy for them. Wait!! Didn’t they rip various ideas off other inventors/innovators? Yessiree Bob! But just like a great chef can take some simple (concepts) ingredients that are wandering around looking for something to do and put them togehter into a wonderful dish that is great than the sum of the constituent parts, Apple was born. I paraphrase and generalize for brevity and effect.
The main difference is in philosophy _ apple realized that people like order and like good design. They incorporated that into almost everything that they did even to the point of making things too intuitive (I never can find the finder thing!) – but elegant. So yes it’s subjective – but on the whole humans have evolved a very highly sophisticated sense of design whether they work in that field or whether they just respond to it. It’s obvious more people respond to good design than not and that’s why people like to shop at Nordstrom’s, Banana Rep., etc. instead of Big Lots and The Dump. It’s the atmosphere.
So especially people that work in graphic design (and are even MORE sensitive to it) like to feel that elan, suave feeling of wroking on a cool, slick little Industrial Design Wet Dream which, of late, actually boasts an operating system very like what NPR called “the greatest cooperative effort in the history of humanity” – Linux. OS-X is really great – you can flip down out of uber-elan and get right on your (local no less) command line and do a grep -15 “my dog has fleas” |less and away you go! Try that (without WinGrep) on your PC.
So really, both are good (for instance try finding some Ham Radio 2.3GhZ packet radio software that’ll run on a Mac – not likely ) but for different things. And as long as we have VM-ware type cross-pollinators (that tun on both systems, mind you) I guess we really don’t have a fight on our hands.
Just for the record – I use – and like – both! So pardon me while I go mod my PC box so it looks like a Mac, throw away the other two (useful) buttons on my mouse and get a custom windows/mac emulation template and I’ll see you over on the other side.
Man, you say that I got in my mind a lot of time. Sorry, but I feel a litle bad with some designers that are consumer adicts, and think that they are important because uses the last Mac 33′ with his iphone.
Well, Van Gogh don’t need the best canvas, or the most expensive colors to create his fantastic art. In fact, he lives and dead poor, but his creations are invaluable.
And, I’ts perfectly OK if someone uses Mac, Pc, Linux, etc. But don’t think that you’re best for that!
I would really love to get a hold of a mac today, especially I can dual boot it to linux or Win, I can get everything in if I have a mac.
I have my desktop running XP that sits next to my Ubuntu server, which is often joined by my MacBook, either running OS X or Windows 7. I can use any and all to get the job done, but I work quicker in certain environments depending on what I’m doing. I’ll still take photo editing on my desktop any day.
That said, I do find some of my workflow more fluid on a Mac, but it certainly isn’t more stable than Windows (for me, anyway). I’ve had my MacBook since August 2008 and it certainly gets it’s fair share of lock ups. Seth W. said it pretty well with this: “My iBook is giving me more beach-balls than a holiday weekend… at the beach.”
There are also a fair number of utilities for the Mac that I use regularly that either don’t exist or aren’t as polished for Windows. But in the end, I really don’t care what you or I use. It’s like when developers argue about IDE’s or libraries: if the end goal is achieved, that’s what really matters.
Ah I love these debates.
I’m not supporting either side here, I use and own pcs the majority of the time, but also macs when at work. I do feel that OSX is developed for a more creative brand of people, however its not to say that you are any better when using it. Photoshop is photoshop no matter what system your using it on. the tools may look slightly different but they still do the same things.
Windows is actually alot more powerful/responsive than people give it credit for, because it was originally for logic/intelligent (think early programmers) type people and as such theyve stuck with that model. I’ve never has issues with the command line and batch scripts have saved me countless hours over the years. So the whole unix debate is quite frankly rubbish, besides theres programs such as kitty and putty if you need to interact with a unix environment, or you could dual-boot.
At the end of the day it all comes down to comfort, ability, and the time you put in to actually learning how to make things better for yourself rather than getting frustrated and then ranting about the tools. I love windows because i can tweak and customise to my hearts content because I’ve taken the time to learn how to.
As trigger from only fools and horses once said “I’ve had this broom for 15 years, its had 7 new handles and 12 new heads”.
That sums up a pc for me, if its not powerful enough or has issues i can pop down to almost any electronics store, pick up new parts and install them and get back to work, no fussing with sending it off or taking it into the apple store.
Even the whole “a windows pc doesn’t look as nice” argument is fairly rubbish. Buy a new case, get a monitor from somewhere else, get one of those disk drives that you just slide a disk into, even if it means when that cd jams your screwed. At the end of the day aesthetics are just that, a little bit of fluff to make it look nicer in your bedroom. Use the stardock themeing to make the desktop look nicer.
I know this has turned into a very pro windows based post, but thats because i agree with the claim of “apple-elitists” even down to the fact apple portray “pc” as a useless, tubby doddering old man in their adverts to seem “trendy”. Wheres the need? If you have to rely on immature jibes at your competition to get sales then where is your effort really focused? obviously not on making the product speak for itself.
I disagree with you on one point, Don’t you think Mac in itself is a product!. And the hammer you use for work needs to be well-designed and comfortable enough for you to produce greater/better products!
Making this point, in no way, is ruling out producing the better apps with whatever quality of hammer you have. All I am saying is, the time you spend in creating the environment for your application to run or develop can be put into designing/developing your application itself provided the hammer you got is smart enough!
Thanks